ЦӀыхухэт тепсэлъэхьыгъуэ:Jon Harald Søby

Comments on the transfer of the Kabardian Wiktionary from the Incubator to its own site.

Dear Mr. Søby!
Thank you for your great work in transferring our Dictionary to our permanent ВИКИПСАЛЪАЛЪЭ site. The results so far are extremely good.
Some questions, if we may.

1) None of our collapsible Navframes work after conversion. This is a catastrophe, since it makes about 10000 verb entries almost unreadable. Without collapsible Navframes, we have some 20 pages of conjugation before you ever reach the definition or translation. Can this be fixed? This concerns verbal conjugations, idiomatic expressions, additional translations and the grammar tables appendix.
2) In the Incubator, it was possible to put text after a template and have it remain on the same line. On our site, all these are now broken into multiple lines and this destroys the general appearance of the English and Russian translation sections of idiomatic expressions. Is there any way these can be concatenated without changing 20000 words?
3) We don’t understand why the word TEMPLATE was relaced with the word ШАБЛОН. This is Russian word, not a Kabardian one, and we would have preferred to leave Template.
4) In the Menu, the collapsible section contains a misspelling in the word for “hide”. It should read “ГЪЭПЩКӀУН” and not “ГЪЭПШКӀУН”. This is a very prominent misspelling. We have tried to fix it everywhere we can find it in TRANSLATE, but the misspelling persists. At no time have we provided such a misspelling.
5) Another prominent misspelling is “ТЕПСЭЛЪЭХЬЫГЪЭ” in the heading right next to “MAIN PAGE” (НЭХЪЫЩХЬЭ). THERE IS NO SUCH WORD and it creates a TERRIBLE IMPRESSION. We have changed this everywhere to “ТЕПСЭЛЪЫХЬЫН”in TRANSLATE, but this misspelling persists. We have complained about this previously.
6) It appears that many things are simply being taken from the Kabardian Wikipedia. We ourselves have avoided doing this since the Kabardian Wikipedia is illiterately written using mixed dialects and contains numerous misspellings. It is unsuitable for use in schools, universities, or as a general reference. I have written about this previously.
We thank you in advance for your kind assistance!))
Rhdkabardian (тепсэлъыхьыныгъэ) 14:08, 23 Мэлыжьыхь 2023 (MSK)

Hi @Rhdkabardian!

1 and 2) Can you give me some example links, please?

3) Because that is what is used for the translation of "Template" in Kabardian's language file at MessagesKbd_cyrl.php. We can change it there (that one can't be done in Translatewiki), but it would be best to have consensus about that with the Kabardian Wikipedia too before it is changed (since changing it in that file would also change it for the Kabardian Wikipedia).

4 and 5) These can be fixed in Translatewiki; use translatewiki:Special:SearchTranslations to find the misspelled word and edit it there, then after a few days it will appear correctly here.

6) Nothing is taken directly from the Kabardian Wikipedia; rather, both the Wikipedia and this Wiktionary use the same translations from MediaWiki. Again, that can all be fixed in Translatewiki. Jon Harald Søby (тепсэлъыхьыныгъэ) 15:16, 23 Мэлыжьыхь 2023 (MSK)

Hare are samples of the NavFrame problem:
The first problem (Verbal Conjugations): see щын (3 conjugations in one entry)
The second, third and fourth problems can been seen in the article щхьэ (examples from textbooks; translations in additonal languages; idioms
The last can be seen in the first appendix (грамматикэ таблицэхэр).
As far as the insertion of a newline character after templates, see the English and Russian translations of the idioms in the article щхьэ.

@Rhdkabardian: I see. I think I fixed the error with the newline characters now; if you spot it in any other templates, the procedure is to just edit those templates and remove the excess line breaks at the end of the template.

As for collapsible content, I made an edit to щын now to illustrate how it could be changed. It would be ideal, however, if these <div class="NavFrame">…</div> things were inside a template (that's what templates are for!) instead of directly in the text like they are now.

I can help create a template that makes it look more like what was in the Incubator, and when that is done, I can replace all occurences of <div class="NavFrame">…</div> with the new template using my bot. Does that sound alright? Jon Harald Søby (тепсэлъыхьыныгъэ) 10:47, 24 Мэлыжьыхь 2023 (MSK)

Jon Harald SøbyYour idea seems to be similar to what I did several weeks ago with "арэзын" (see). I would like to do something similar for all verbs. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to write a functional "bot". If you have an example that I can follow, I can do the work myself...)) Changing up to 17000 verbs by hand is a daunting task and would best be automated.
The bot would have to log me on to kbd.wiktionary.org, read the source for the target word in edit mode, edit the source to change all the verbal conjugation entries, rewrite the original source, and then create a new entry with the separate conjugation code.
This approach could solve all the problems but the idioms section... Since it is at the end of the entry, it's not such a big problem, however)) Do you have something similar already coded?
The problem with texts following English and Russian translation macros has been resolved. THANK YOU!))

By the way, I have been having severe problems sending you responses. The message is constantly flagged as an error.
I have been unable to contact you for several days... Your answer function isn't working properly!((--Rhdkabardian (тепсэлъыхьыныгъэ) 17:51, 26 Мэлыжьыхь 2023 (MSK)

@Rhdkabardian: Hi, sorry about the late reply. I had started to write a reply a few days ago, but I forgot to save it.

I don't fully understand what you changed in арэзын. Do you mean this edit? If you see my edit, you'll see that it basically re-adds the hide/show functionality, but it is less visible (due to a lack of border) than what it was in the Incubator. But if we put this functionality into a template, it is very easy to make it appear almost exactly like NavFrame did in the Incubator.

As for bot, I could easily replace all the existing NavFrame stuff with a new template, but it would be more difficult to try to rewrite things "from scratch".

The problem with replying (and using Visual Editor) should be fixed in a few days, I hope; the cause for both not working is the same underlying issue (something called RESTBase needs to be switched on manually for this wiki). In the meantime, we can still reply the "old-fashioned way" by just using "edit source". Jon Harald Søby (тепсэлъыхьыныгъэ) 11:50, 28 Мэлыжьыхь 2023 (MSK)

@Jon Harald Søby:

The changes I made to арэзын were as follows (view in edit mode to see the commented code, which doesn't display): 1) I removed the current "NavFrame" code from the headword article: 2) I replaced the code with a reference to a separate file. 3)) I created a new file "спр-стат-арэзын" that just contained the conjugation template. I continue working on my bot, but I am still having a few difficulties...)) My Bot is up and running and I should be able to start changing the verbal conjugations soon.))--Rhdkabardian (тепсэлъыхьыныгъэ) 15:07, 2 Накъыгъэ 2023 (MSK)

@Rhdkabardian: Great to hear that the bot is up and running. Is it based on Pywikibot? About спр-стат-арэзын, doesn't that fit better in a template or an appendix, and not as a separate main namespace entry? Jon Harald Søby (тепсэлъыхьыныгъэ) 18:21, 4 Накъыгъэ 2023 (MSK)

@Jon Harald Søby:This bot is purely my own work, written in Visual Basic.NET. It isn't based on any existing wiki bot that I know of. I was unable to obtain samples of any wiki bots before starting work... I would be happy to share the code with you.))
A separate file seems the way most wiktionaries have gone. See French and German, where, in the basic article, you are presented with a partial conjugation or declension and you have the option to get the complete declension or conjugation in a separate file.
As concerns templates, I think this would be more difficult to implement. I will explore the option before I get too far. By the way, the template "Template:нэгъуэщӀбзэхэр" contains a NavFrame to collapes the contents of the entry... It doesn't work.
As far as an appendix, I don't think it is very appropriate. It is too general to be of help with the conjugation of specific verb types.
--Rhdkabardian (тепсэлъыхьыныгъэ) 10:19, 5 Накъыгъэ 2023 (MSK) @Jon Harald Søby:We have completed updating some 5448 verbs (for all letters but З, КЪ, П, Т, ХУ, Ш и ЩI, which are still incomplete). The “collapse” now works correctly, since the conjugation is in a separate file from the basic verb.--Rhdkabardian (тепсэлъыхьыныгъэ) 15:28, 23 Накъыгъэ 2023 (MSK)